CHRIS KENNY, HOST: Labor's Agricultural and Resources spokesman, Joel Fitzgibbon, joins me now from Cessnock. Joel, I was just reading your article on this. It's incredible how even on food we can be exposed because we rely on overseas suppliers for things like pesticides and the like.
JOEL FITZGIBBON, MEMBER FOR HUNTER: That's right, Chris, and if there is anything good to come out of this pandemic, it will be the focus, or refocus, or maybe in some cases, the first focus, on some of those vulnerabilities. And as you can see, I've nominated just four areas there: obviously our national defence, fuel security, which of course is closely related to defence, food security and, of course, supply of medical equipment and medicines, etcetera. All of the things that we will rely upon absolutely in time of a crisis and areas in which we do need a level of self-sufficiency.
KENNY: Yeah, now fuel, even manufacturing, certainly medical supplies, we all understand that, food is the surprise one. Where are our biggest vulnerabilities there and what do we need to do to make sure we are secure?
FITZGIBBON: I know, Chris, you'd have ministers over and over again say, and I should say I've been guilty of it as well, saying that we could never have a food security problem in this country because we export two thirds of everything we produce. Or in other words, as a country of 25 million people, we produce enough food to feed about 75 million. But I also made the point that one third of nothing is absolutely nothing. And without ongoing access to the key crop protections our farmers rely upon to grow our food, that's exactly theoretically what we would have, nothing. So this is a really serious area of vulnerability and I made the point again that just recently Nufarm, an Australia owned publicly listed company, announced sadly that it's going to exit the Australian market as a manufacturer of the key active ingredient which goes into most of these crop protection products that our farmers rely upon. And animal medicines, of course, come into this equation, too, Chris. Now, we're already heavily importing a manufactured product from China in particular, but if we were to have our sea lanes of communications cut off, for example, if Nufarm do exit the market, we would be absolutely dependent on imports, particularly from China, for these products. And, of course, that does spell trouble.
KENNY: Yeah, just another area where we've got to make sure that we are self-reliant. Now onto climate policy. A lot of talk about the split in the Labor Party, a lot of more people wanting to stick to the government's 2030 targets and then look at 2050 targets beyond that. This effectively means more people are uniting behind your position right? You're winning this argument within labor?
FITZGIBBON: I'm happy to go there, Chris, I'm not avoiding the question. But can I just say that one of the key reasons Nufarm is contemplating exiting the Australian market is high energy prices. They can't compete on a number of fronts and energy has a lot to do with it. So, we do need a settlement in this country on this issue. This is a fair criticism, we've gone seven years under the Abbot/Turnbull/Morrison Government without an energy policy, without the certainty people will need to invest in additional energy capacity, generation capacity. So we need this thing fixed.
KENNY: Yeah, well we know more renewables is just going to make that situation worse. And you've been arguing practical outcomes and it sounds like more in your own party are starting to see that a more pragmatic policy rather than a hard activist, green-left policy is going to be the one that will play you back into the game and be best for the country.
FITZGIBBON: It is certainly true, Chris, that I'm not without friends, and can I say again that I absolutely believe in taking action on climate change. But we need to have a sensible policy which delivers meaningful action, which is also capable of taking the community with us and, of course, doesn't do our economy any harm. Including, of course, those traditional industries so close to my heart, including the coal mining industry, the oil and gas industry, the meat processing industry and our manufacturing sector more generally.
KENNY: So, should Mark Butler and his ilk just disappear off to the Greens or do you think you can win them over?
FITZGIBBON: Well, I think Mark Butler and I have demonstrated that we have been working very well together on these issues since the last federal election. Anthony Albanese has been very accommodating as well. And I've made the point, Chris, many times, that we could have the world's best climate change policy but it doesn't do much good if we are perpetually in Opposition. And what is very clear to me, rightly or wrongly, is that we haven't taken the majority of the Australian community with us on this journey. And until we're able to do so, we won't win an election, and we won't ever have the opportunity to implement a climate change policy. And that means staying with the conservatives, which of course, are doing next to nothing on climate change. Carbon emissions have been flat lining now for the last seven years. So it does the Labor Party, but also I think the country good, if we have an opportunity to serve. But to have that opportunity, we need to persuade the Australian community that our policy is reasonable, well-balanced and of course, effective.
KENNY: Well, you got away with a couple there. We'll come back to that argument again later, Joel Fitzgibbon. We are out of time. Thanks for joining us.
FITZGIBBON: A great pleasure, Chris.